TiedTongue's scriptural look at
Bob's article on Speaking
in Tongues Bob's article
should be read first, the comments in Blue are
TiedTongue's, white text is from Bob's
article.
Start of
article
In
John 14:26 and 16:13, Jesus was speaking to His
disciples about the time to come following His
death, burial, and resurrection. In these two
verses He spoke about the coming of the Holy
Spirit, who would "teach you all things"
and "guide you into all truth." Several
passages in the NT refer to the work of the Holy
Spirit and the miraculous, spiritual gifts
manifested in the early church. Agree
Mark
16:17-20 says, "And these signs shall follow
them that believe; in My name shall they cast out
devils; they shall speak with new tongues. they
shall take up serpents; and if they drink any
deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall
lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So
then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was
received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand
of God. And they went forth, and preached
everywhere, the Lord working with them and
confirming the word with signs following.
Amen." Ok, stop
the bus here! "And these signs shall follow
them that believe; in My name shall they cast out
devils; they shall speak with new tongues".
Does Jesus qualify that only the first church will
have these signs? He says "them that
believe." No qualifications, that means I am
included.
Hebrews
2:3-4 says, "How shall we escape if we
neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the
first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to
us by those who heard, God also bearing witness
with them, both by signs and wonders, and by
various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit
according to His own will?"
Both
of these passages refer to the miraculous gifts of
the Holy Spirit which were in existence in the 1st
century church. These two passages teach that one
great purpose of these spiritual gifts was to aid
in the proclamation of the word of God, and to
help in confirming what was being proclaimed. No indication that these have
stopped, and the clever wording of the
sentence "what was being" in the past
tense indicates his belief that it was in the
past, without substantiating it yet.
Speaking
in Tongues on the Day of Pentecost
In
Acts chapter 2, we find the glorious beginning of
the church on the day of Pentecost. This great
event was made possible by the power of the Holy
Spirit enabling the apostles to "speak with
other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(2:4)." This ability was necessary
because people had gathered in Jerusalem
"from every nation under heaven (2:5)." In
order for the great news to be proclaimed and
understood by all these people, this miraculous
gift was certainly needed.
The last two
sentences are conjecture! There is no
indication that the people got the gospel message
from the tongues (in fact they were CONFUSED
2:12!)- rather, having got their attention through
the SIGN, Peter was able to proclaim the good news
(2:14) and 3000 were saved as a result!
The
word "tongue" is from the Greek word glossa.
According to Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the
New Testament, the word qlossa
means: "the language used by a particular
people in distinction from that of other
nations." Thayer clarifies that the phrase
"speak with other tongues" in Acts 2:4
means "to speak with other than their native,
i.e. in foreign tongues; to speak with new tongues
which the speaker has not learned
previously."
Acts
2:6 further clarifies the meaning of such when the
word dialektos is used; is says when the
apostles spoke, "every man heard them speak
in his own language." Therefore, the
utterances of the apostles on that occasion were
not incomprehensible syllables, but were, in fact,
clearly understood words and sentences spoken in
the languages and dialects of the people assembled
before them on that day. Disagree- many were confused
[2:12] and probably did not recognise some of the
languages (but did recognise their own), and hence
that was probably why some accused them of
being drunk! There is no indication that ONLY
recognisable languages were spoken, in fact there
is evidence to support a different view! Chris' comments :
Speaking in a tongue always has a
purpose. One of the purposes is to
indicate the overflowing presence of the
Holy Spirit.
The disciples were all in a room when this
started, so they spoke in different
languages even before any people noticed
them.
As people from different races drew near,
I believe the tongue of some of the
disciples changed to suit the
listener.
Notice
verses 9-11: there we find a list of folks from
over a dozen different places, each speaking
different languages and/or dialects. And yet the
apostles, being filled with the Holy Spirit, were
miraculously able to speak in all these languages,
even though they had never before been able to do
so. All this helps to clarify the meaning of
"speaking in tongues." Disagree, see above. He is trying
to limit it to his belief.
Speaking
in Tongues in 1 Corinthians
There
are a couple of other cases of speaking in tongues
recorded for us in the NT. But, in every instance
of such, this same word glossa
is used, indicating that each case of
"speaking in tongues" involved the
miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language,
understandable by listeners who knew that
language, but never before learned by the speaker.
In
1 Corinthians 12-14, Paul speaks to the Christians
at Corinth about their use of miraculous,
spiritual gifts. Evidently there was some controversy at Corinth regarding these gifts,
particularly the gift of speaking in tongues.
Paul's comments in chapter 14 indicate that those
who were blessed with the gift of speaking in
tongues were somewhat boastful of their particular
gift, and that those who were not able to speak in
tongues were envious of those who could. Paul
wants to teach them that every gift is important,
and that no one particular gift, not even speaking in tongues, should be held as more
important than other gifts. [Paul actually
desired us to prefer/seek the more important gifts (12:31) especially those that
help to save people- which we should want to do because of desiring the way of
Love!]
In
1 Corinthians 12:4-12, Paul reminds them that
every member is important, and that each gift is
necessary "for the common good (12:7)."
He clarifies in v10 and in v30 that not every
Christian is able to speak in tongues, and that
speaking in tongues should not be regarded as the most important spiritual gift.
In
chapter 14, Paul's comments indicate that the
worship services of the Corinthians were not as
they should be. Evidently various members were
each trying to "steal the show" through
the use of their particular gift, and those who
could speak in tongues were apparently doing so with little restraint.
Paul instructs that the
purpose of this particular gift was for teaching
unbelievers (14:22), [My bible says
"proof", not teaching. And, this is not the only purpose- there is
also the purpose of self-edification, and for a message (accompanied by
interpretation)] and that if there was no
one present who understood that particular
language, or there was no interpreter, they were to
be silent. Otherwise, only God would be able to understand (14:2), and that was not the
intent. Paul commands, "Let all things be
done properly and in an orderly manner
(14:40)."
Verses
26ff teach that each member should be given an
opportunity to edify the others, and that no one
should speak in a foreign language, even
though inspired by the Holy Spirit, unless someone
was present who was able to understand that
language and interpret for all assembled. Look
at verses 32-33; this shows that they were to
exercise control over the expression of their
gifts; the Holy Spirit did not overpower them
and leave them helpless and uncontrollable over
their actions.
The
miraculous
Gift of Speaking in Tongues was Temporary (NO!)
As
important as these spiritual gifts were, Paul
wanted the early Christians to understand that
they were temporary and that there was something more important they needed to
develop. In 1 Corinthians chapter 13, Paul teaches
that love is a gift or a quality [naughty! later on NoTongue says it
is a gift. Paul just calls it a "way".] that
surpasses all others; it is a way that will
endure throughout all the ages of mankind.
[No,
before and even beyond that- it is eternal. 13:8] Some
have misunderstood Paul's statement in v1 about
the "tongues of men and of angels."
Paul does not say that he speaks in some heavenly,
angelic language. Rather he is using a figure of
speech throughout these first 3 verses. He
actually mentions five things that would be
worthless without love:
-
Speaking in
the tongues of angels (v1)
Knowing all
mysteries and all knowledge (v2)
Having all
faith so as to move mountains (v2)
Giving all
his possessions to feed the poor (v3)
Giving his
body to be burned (v3)
Notice in
regards to all these things he says
"IF" or "THOUGH" he could
do so, if he didn't have love, it would profit
nothing. He did not claim to literally do
any of these things. [Neither
does he claim that he can't!]
In
this same chapter, Paul says that miraculous,
spiritual gifts, while important and necessary for
that time, were nevertheless temporal in nature and would some day cease to exist. 1
Corinthians 13:8-12 says, "Love never fails;
but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will
cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done
away. For we know in part, and we prophecy in
part; but when the perfect comes, the partial
will be done away.
When I was a child, I used to
speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a
child; when I became a man, I did away with
childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly,
but then face to face; now I know in part, but
then I shall know fully just as I also have
been fully known."
The
statement in verse 8, though often overlooked by
many in the religious world, is clear: miraculous
gifts of the Holy Spirit were temporary in nature. There would come a time when they
would stop. [Yes,
when Jesus comes again- that is when what is perfect comes.]
Concerning
the gifts of prophecy and knowledge, Paul uses the
Greek word katargeo, which means
(according to Vine's Expository Dictionary)
"to reduce to inactivity." Concerning
the gift of tongues, Paul uses the word pauo,
which means "to stop, to make an
end." Vine further says regarding 13:8,
"They were to be rendered of no effect after
their temporary use was fulfilled [just as]
when the apostle became a man he did away with the
ways of a child."
When
Were the Miraculous Gifts to End?
Verses
8-12 state that such gifts would some day cease to
exist, and that such would happen "when the
perfect comes." According to Thayer's
lexicon, the word "perfect" is from the
Greek word teleios
which means something that is "brought to
its end, finished; wanting nothing necessary
to completeness; perfect."
It
is suggested by some that this
"completion" or "perfect"
refers to the second coming of Christ (thus
allowing for tongues, etc. to continue until
the end of time).
However, such would contradict
what Paul says later in this chapter. Not only does
he speak of gifts that will cease, but also of
three gifts that will abide: faith, hope, and love
(v13). Surely a gift that will abide has to last
longer than a gift that will cease.
However, the Bible teaches that faith and hope will, in
fact, one day cease, when faith becomes sight and
when hope is realized at the return of Christ. Chris' comments : The bible
does not actually teach that faith and hope will
one day cease, it is just assumed by normal logic,
that when we are eventually with God, we will be
able to see Him and hence not require faith (faith
is to be sure of what is not known). Love, the greatest of gifts, not only is
abiding, but eternal. [There
is no mention of Love, Faith and Hope as gifts, as far as I can see.
In
12:31 Paul says "Set your hearts then, on the more important gifts"
(talking about the Holy Spirit gifts.) He then continues "Best of all,
however, is the following way." (Love) Surely he would have said
"gift" if he thought love was a gift???.
Since
faith and hope will cease [They don't! See
13:7-8. "Love never gives up; and its faith, hope and
patience never fail. Love is eternal." If love is eternal but faith and hope cease, then that
means that Love's faith and hope fails/ceases, which is a contradiction!
Thus Faith, Hope and Love are eternal- that is why they remain! (13:13)]
at the return of Christ, and these are
referred to as gifts that abide, the gifts that
will cease (prophecy, knowledge, tongues) MUST
cease prior to the return of Christ. [Nope- they cease when Christ returns, because
the Holy Spirit's work is complete when Jesus is with us again.] This
in itself does not say exactly when, but it proves
beyond doubt that the miraculous gifts must
cease PRIOR to the return of Christ, not AT the
return of Christ.
Looking
again to v8-12, the context of the passage itself
dictates what is being completed. Paul said in
verse 10, "When the perfect comes, the
partial will be done away." What was partial?
The answer to that is in verse 9: "For we
know in part, and we prophesy in part." At
the time Paul wrote these words, their
knowledge and understanding of God's will was only
partial. [Our knowledge is still in part- we learn as we
walk along the path!]
Remember
John 14:26? The Holy Spirit would be sent to teach
them all things. When Paul wrote these words to
the Corinthians (probably >around 54-55 AD),
all of God's will had not yet been completely
revealed.
The miraculous and inspirational work of
the Holy Spirit continued at least through the
writing of the book of Revelation towards the end
of the 1st
century. Until that time of completion, Paul
says, we only "know in part, and we
prophecy in part." [Same conjecture....!]
Thus,
though some would disagree, it seems reasonable
that the time of completion referred to by Paul
would be that time when all of God's will had
been revealed through the apostles and recorded
for us in the pages of the New Testament.
Miraculous, spiritual gifts were certainly necessary during the infancy of the church and
to aid in the revelation of God's will. [But that's not the only purpose...!] It
seems the need for such gifts would naturally end
when such was accomplished. [Not
if there was another purpose, which NoTongue has discounted...!]
Conclusion
While
some in recent times have claimed to be able to
speak in tongues, there appears to be no
similarity to what occurred in the first century. In the New Testament we read about speaking in
real languages
[There are countless incidents documented of speaking of tongues in
recent years being recognised by people. Books like "9 'o clock in the
morning" [Bennet I think], and "They speak with other tongues"
[Sherril I think] have many references.] understood
by the people of that time; people today [who?] claim
to speak in a language only understood
by God [I think those people would say
that its
entirely possible that the language could be human, they just don't
know it!].
The Bible does not speak of such. [Paul says "in the tongues of men
and angels". God would understand what the angels are saying! Oops, they
use Paul's words figuratively here but literal virtually everywhere
else?. Considering the number of languages, past, present and future and their
different dialects available there are literally hundreds of thousands. God is
the only one who understands them ALL!]
Some
in the religious world today place great emphasis
on the ability to speak in tongues. To them it is
proof that they are filled with the Holy Spirit. [While it can be a proof, not all can speak in
tongues. I agree it should not be used as a
proof.]
The
Bible teaches that all faithful Christians are
indeed filled with the Holy Spirit, but not
necessarily in the miraculous sense as was seen in the first century church. They needed
some extra special help to get the church going
(Paul alluded to the church in its infancy in 1 Corinthians 13:11). Today we have the written
word of God. [and we have the gifts of the Holy
Spirit!]
To summarise what I
believe is a misinterpretation:
1. "And the signs
(incl. tongues) shall follow them that
believe" (WE BELIEVE, SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW US)
2. Error in concluding
that tongues passed the Good News onto those of
different language. (was a sign or a proof as well)
3. Error in concluding
that tongues were only in recognisable languages,
always interpreted by one who knew the language.
4. Error in concluding a
singular purpose for tongues.
5. Error in concluding
that Love is a gift. (it is a way)
6. Unsubstantiated
conclusion that Paul is talking figuratively about
speaking in the tongues of angels. (Why not the
whole chapter then?)
7. Error in concluding
that Paul is talking of Faith, Hope and Love as
gifts in Cor 13. (There is the gift of faith
though. Faith, Hope and Love are also fruit
of the Holy Spirit.)
8. Contradiction in
concluding that faith and hope fail/cease before
Love.
9. As a result of 8, error
in concluding that the spiritual gifts cease
before the return of Christ.
10. Error in concluding
purpose for Spiritual gifts.
11. Error in dismissing
recent tongues activity.
Read the cessation
of gifts article for more
information.